Insights

Clint Tripodi | How to Set a Strategy And Execute It
POSTED 12.28.22 M&A Masters Podcast

As we prepare for the new year, it’s time to set your strategy…

What strategy?,” you might think, “We just need to make more money.”

But a business without a strategy is destined for failure.

Especially in today’s changing world, where an unexpected crisis could derail your business.

And it’s not enough to set a strategy…

You have to execute it, too.

Liberty Company Insurance Brokers’ own Clint Tripodi is here to talk strategic planning facilitation and executive development.

Clint will show you how to have a successful strategy session—and actually follow through on your plan.

Mentioned in this episode:

    • https://www.linkedin.com/in/clinttripodi/

Transcript

Patrick Stroth: Hello there. I’m Patrick Stroth, trusted authority in executive and transactional liability and founder of Rubicon M&A Insurance Services, now a proud member of the Liberty Company Insurance Broker Network. Welcome to M&A Masters, where I speak with the leading experts in mergers and acquisitions. And we’re all about one thing here. That’s a clean exit for owners, founders and their investors. Today we’re going in house as I’m joined by Clint Tripodi, national practice leader of human capital for our parent, Liberty Company Insurance Brokers.

For over 30 years, Clint has provided a unique combination of strategic planning facilitation services, and executive development to effectively execute a company’s strategic plan. And as we are at this time of year where management teams are putting pen to paper for 2023 in their plans, and so forth, I figured this is the ideal time to bring in a new great strength and capability that we have for our clients. Clint, thanks for joining us today.

Clint Tripodi: You’re welcome, Patrick. Pleasure to be here, carving out some time. And you’re right. This is strategic planning season, it’s a lot of people will say strategic planning is something you do every day, but it kind of tends to cluster as we prepare for the new year.

Patrick: Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, before we get into that, because we have a new twist on this, because it’s strategic planning, facilitation, and execution, which gets overlooked. Before we get into that, Clint, tell us about you. What got you to this point in your career?

Clint: You know, I kind of fell into it, to be really honest. I started off my career as a human resource professional, leading large training and development firms for high-tech organizations. And that was back in the late 90s when I worked for Hitachi. Worked for them for about 10 years, they decided to turn me into a strategist, which was really a wonderful pivot in my career. I went back to school, I got certifications in strategy from Harvard University and the University of Michigan. And then I refined my strategy work in terms of incorporating visual graphic facilitation through the growth consulting international.

So you know, the light bulb went off years ago to combine the two skill sets. Formal strategy facilitation, and executive leadership development, because as you had said, the biggest challenge in terms of setting strategy is to execute the strategy. So that’s how I fell into it. That’s my niche. And, and I have a lot of wonderful clients that really, really embrace strategic planning and leadership development.

Patrick: Now on a simplistic level of strategic planning, there are some businesses out there that are just saying, what strategy? We just have to sell more. Go, grow, grow revenues, cut expenses. And there’s another, you know, body of thought now that things are changing so fast and so dynamic, that if we have this set in stone strategy, we eliminate being nimble. We can’t be responsive to changes that we don’t even anticipate.

So let’s talk about your practice, because it is two parts. It is strategic planning facilitation, and then the executive development. We’ll start with a strategic planning facilitation portion. Why strategic planning? Why is it so important? I know this is really basic, but you know what it is, it sets the table for a lot of other things that you provide.

Clint: Yeah, well, you know, I wish business was as simple as profit equals revenue minus expense, but it’s a, it’s just a little bit more complex than that. The importance has always been on strategic planning. But there’s a critical need for it today. And I’ll anchor back to a military term called Vuca. V U C A that’s volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity, right? We’re living and working in a changing world at a pace that we’ve never seen before. If you don’t have a strategy and a plan in place, let alone a Plan B, then you’re going to fail.

I mean, how much of us in late 2019, perhaps the first month of 2020, thought we would be managing through a worldwide pandemic? I mean, that was massive change, right, Patrick? And the companies that survived had a strategy already in place and had the agility to be able to course correct along the way. So I found in my practice, there was a screaming need for strategy and some organizations were caught off guard. So I will suffice to say, the time to start your strategy is not in crisis mode, but way in front of it.

Patrick: And in just out of this, I mean, is it too late to do it? We’re in the last month of 2022. Is it too late to do it now?

Clint: No, it’s never too late. My clients engage me through the whole course of the year, right. It’s like, you know, when was the best time to plant a tree? 20 years ago. When’s the second best? The second best time, right. It’s to plant it today. And that’s the way it is with strategy. I mean it if you think about a ship at sea that gets caught in a storm, right? These crew members are skilled on how to navigate through the storm. The storm could be unexpected, the size of it could be unexpected. But once they’re in it, they’re already prepared. You don’t want to train your sailors how to handle and navigate in the midst of the storm, they need to be trained beforehand. And that’s where strategy comes into place.

Patrick: Okay, and so this is the new thing since I met you not too long ago, as we joined Liberty together is that this last part is facilitator. So what does a strategic planning facilitator do?

Clint: That’s a great question. And I’ll tell you this over years of experience. A skilled facilitator has a methodology in which if you trust a process, the solutions will start to emerge. A strategic planning facilitator does not necessarily have to have subject matter expertise in the industry in which they are facilitated. For instance, if you take a look at my portfolio, I work with nonprofits, with airlines with biotech companies, with beverage, with cannabis. It doesn’t really matter as long as you have the process. So that’s probably the number one learning point, right is you can’t just get a group of executives to sit around a conference table and bang out a strategy in one or two days. That’s a good recipe for chaos, okay.

Patrick: Well and that and groupthink with if you’re brainstorming, and they’re not used to thinking, you know, out, you know, putting things out there, they’re not prepared to do it so you just have the same things over and over again, I think.

Clint: Yeah, absolutely. When you have an external facilitator, that could hold up a mirror and ask really important questions like why? Okay, so this is the way you’ve always done it. Well, did you know that legacy and nostalgia will kill an organization. So they lean back against the participants. And then the other one that I think is the most important, and this is why I find, this the feedback I get mostly from the CEOs. Thank goodness, we brought you in, Clint, we should have done it a year ago. And there’s no way that I could have led the session. Because what they realize is it’s extremely difficult to be both a facilitator and a participant, you could be one or the other.

So when a CEO or the leader of an organization becomes a participant, not only are they actively participating, but they’re also taking a look at the behaviors and the commitment around the team. And they help drive team alignment. Because when you’re done with a strategic plan, and you have a great work product, that’s fantastic. The biggest benefit that I always hear is my gosh, we are allied. We had that moment to lean into each other, right. To hold healthy dissent, disagree. But when we walk out the door, we are all on the same page. And we’re all committed to execute to the strategic plan.

Patrick: Okay, well, not to jump too far ahead. I don’t want you to get distracted from this. But if we’re doing this kind of get-together and the facilitation process, how long does that take? Is it days, weeks? You know, in person, Zoom? Well, how’s that? How does that work? What’s an ideal situation?

Clint: The ideal situation, in person. If you’re really laying out strategy for the first time, it’s a two-day process. Right. But again, that’s only the starting point. Because the ability to execute to the strategic plan is what’s so important. And building in the executive discipline, to not go back to your office six weeks later, chasing the shiny new object is what’s really key. So building in the checkpoints. Okay, so minimum, quarterly review, what’s working, what’s not working. Halfway through the year, six months, keep, stop, start, right.

Having names on the initiatives and holding executives accountable to the execution is absolutely key. Then at the year end, right, looking back, what worked, what didn’t work and then reset strategy. Okay, all the while knowing that the implementation of strategy happens every single day. And you make me think of a famous quote, and I’m sure Patrick, you’ve heard this before. Thomas Edison famously said, vision without execution is hallucination.

Patrick: I didn’t want to steal your thunder on that one with the tree.

Clint: But you know, you know, what’s, what’s kind of cool about that is what I tell my clients at the end of the two day in depth process, congratulations, folks, that was the easy part. Right? The ability to execute and stay on course, and build a culture of discipline around, right, hitting your metrics and your KPIs. And the responsibility, authority and accountability, the classic R A A principles that go into ownership is really key.

And that’s where I find a lot of organizations need a facilitator for myself, because what I do is I build in the accountability and the discipline. I keep them on track, right, because I know how busy everyone gets. But if you’re going to make the investment upfront to do a strategic plan, well on the back end, you need to make sure you execute to the strategic plan or it was really for nothing.

Patrick: Yeah, well, and you mentioned this earlier, because I’m a real visual guy. And I need the bullet points and the checklist, and so forth, or graphs and so forth, just to just put it in perspective, and that kind of sinks in with me. And when you and I spoke about this, as a facilitator, there are specifically five or six specific outputs that you’re going to get. You’re not just going to get a strategic plan, okay. And you referenced a few new ones, but let’s go over these just because they were so on point. And I’ll start. You do mention this, but let’s just get these in the bullets. Okay. Number one is team alignment. Okay. First output is all of a sudden, you get everybody’s, you got buy in, on board going. Let’s talk about a couple other specific outputs from this process.

Clint: Yes, the second one would be a game plan over the course of let’s say, a year, because most of my strategic plans encompass a calendar year or it aligns with an operating budget, whatever that might be. Major milestones and tasks, when, and by who, and how it is measured. That’s key. So when you get to the section of where you’re starting to do some game planning, you don’t get into tactics. That’s not where you solve the problem. But you say, here are the milestones. Here’s how we could actually say success has happened. So I think that’s a really big one. The second one is to take a look at a combination of success and challenges.

So we have a strategic plan in place, we’re going to go execute to it. What success factors do we have that’s going to propel us forward? And then with eyes wide open, what challenges do we face? How do we overcome those obstacles? It kind of ties back into my leadership practice. What does the leader do? Number one, they set vision and strategy. So that’s the strategic plan. Number two is they have a relentless focus on people. Number three, they give the organization resources and number four, they remove obstacles. We touch on all of that as we’re going through a strategic plan.

Patrick: Okay, and I think it’s great as maybe when you’re setting the benchmarks and the milestones and so forth. You’re not getting mired into okay, well, how are we going to do that? That’s left, that’s for management, you know, at the lower levels to do, and then you’re doing is just there a guidepost. But you know, you’re starting here, you’ve got to get here, go. Somebody’s accountable. This is the priority, you’ve got to get from here to here. And if something’s in the way, you know, there are channels to okay, how do we get around this and and stuff. So rather than being mired in this, okay, well, I’m just gonna keep doing what I’m doing.

Clint: Yes, this is strategy. Okay. You start off at the 30,000-foot level. The context of an organization today, in the context of industry, competitive trends, may be political, legislative factors, economics, there’s a variety of things. Then you start to drill it down. You drill down to what are the key initiatives. And for most of my clients, right, and we know, there’s 10,000 things that organization needs to do. But typically, they say, anywhere from three to five key initiatives, that at the end of the year, that did we not execute to those or make significant progress, it would be to the detriment of the company.

Now, we know that there are 1000 tasks below each one of those initiatives. But this is not the time to solve that problem. And I think this is why you need an expert facilitator. Because they push back to say, wait a minute, folks, we’re trying to solve the problem here. Let’s establish what the problem is. What’s the goal? What’s the strategy? Let’s get everyone to agree on that. And then in another session, then you can start working on how you’re going to project plan to execute to this initiative. And I think that’s what’s tough when you don’t have a facilitator that the conversation goes in 1000 different directions.

Patrick: Is there any subject or anything during these sessions? What area has been a blind spot consistently that you’ve seen? I mean.

Clint: You know, I’ll phrase out a little bit differently. There are certain initiatives and challenges that have always been there that have now risen to the surface. Right? Okay. So, you know, talent acquisition, talent management, focus on people has always been on the list. Now it’s in the top three. Supply chain management is at the top of the list. Mental health and well-being is at the top of the list. Global conflict. I mean, obviously, the aftermath of COVID. And still being in COVID.

A climate change is now really, really high on the list right now, because a lot of organizations are suffering from depleting, right, materials. Beyond just supply chain, if you take a look down in Mexico access to water for the big breweries that are on the border, I mean, it’s a big, big issue. Right. So I think that’s, that’s pretty, that’s pretty prominent. But I would say, the biggest blind spot that a lot of my clients have, is basically not invented here, or this is how we’ve always done it. The legacy practice is, hey, that’s great. That got you to this point, for the last 40 years.

But you know, the world today is very different than it was, you know, just three to five years ago. Are you prepared to change your practices? I mean, Jack Welch said it the best right. Change or die. And think about strategic planning. It’s a big change management process. Okay, what are we trying to pivot? What are we trying to accomplish? What obstacles are you trying to overcome? How do we stay agile? And how do we adapt?

Patrick: See, and I think that’s why this is so ideally suited for a lot of our clients in the mergers and acquisitions space for private equity. So I think that’s really helpful for particularly, not only small companies, but for the smaller PE firms that don’t have those in house resources. This is something I think is ideally suited for them. And that’s why I’m so excited to have you here for this kind of conversation. Now, as we’ve gone through the strategic planning, and now the facilitation for the planning. We’ve got the plan. We got accountabilities, we got the game plan. Okay. Now what? And that part is execution. Talk about execution and how you deal, how you deliver that.

Clint: So you know, the question I would ask the leader at the top of the organization is do you have the leadership depth and skill sets to execute to the strategy? And what I mean by that, you know, people always ask me, okay, Clint, what is leadership? Well, you could define that a lot of different ways. I define it as the art of getting things done through other people. That’s my definition. Do the leaders have the skill sets to get their people to execute to the strategic plan. Because leadership implementation isn’t just about the senior leadership team, it’s about the rest of the organization. Right.

So making sure that you have the level of followership. Making sure you have the level of leadership training, which is skills acquisition, what the leader does. Making sure that you assess their leadership behaviors, that’s how the leader does it. Right. And then the third piece is like who the leader is, and that could be personality profiling, Myers Briggs, DISC, compass, there’s a number of different ways to be able to do that. So a lot of people confuse leadership training with leadership development. It’s two different things.

Training could be like a one-shot deal you come in to deliver a training program. You might not ever see that facilitator, again, you don’t know if learning is taking place. Leadership development, is a long-term sustained effort, where you’re always linking back the skill sets required to execute to the strategic plan. So it’s kind of holistic in nature, right? So most of my clients hire me for a minimum one-year engagement, because they realize, especially if they have to turn a ship, this is a long way to go.

Patrick: Have you had situations where you’re working with leaders, and then you go to, you know, owner-founder and say, you know, this, this really isn’t a fit. Or where they come to us they I don’t know if this is a fit, and you turn them around, talk about those types of situations because this is critical.

Clint: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. You know, that the leader at the top of the organization sets the tone of the organization. So what tone are they setting from a skills, behavioral, cultural perspective, it’s a key. I usually am brought into organizations that are typically high performing. They want to take it to the next level. But I’ve also worked a lot of private equity firms in the distress place where the bottom organizations that are that are struggling, and they need me to come in to do not only strategy but an analysis of leadership effectiveness. And I believe that you can’t manage what you can’t measure and so I have certain measurement tools to be able to guage the effectiveness of the leaders.

So I’ll give you an example. Next week I’ll be in Gaithersburg, Maryland working with a biotechnology company. I call this a 14, 15 year old startup, they’re still burning 10 million per year, but their owner, this is a billion-dollar family out of out of Denmark, right. But they’re ready now to bring product to market, show some profitability. They brought in a brand new CEO. And he hired me to help set the strategy and do the leadership evaluation. End result, we had to take out right there CTO, because he was holding the team’s performance back.

Once we did that, it was remarkable on how all of a sudden the team came together and started to execute to the strategic plan. And now we backfilled him. And I was involved in that in terms of doing an assessment on that new executive to make sure it was the right team fit, because we didn’t go back to where we wanted to be. So it’s really strategy, leadership development, execution. It’s all linked together. It’s not an overnight deal. It is a typically a long-term engagement.

Patrick: Okay. Have you ever been engaged on prospective acquisitions? Have you ever been brought in on that where, you know, as part of the diligence team, a buyer goes like, can you look at this, this management team, tell us what you think? Are they coachable?

Clint: Yeah, many, many times. I like what you say, you know, are they coachable? Are they resisting the acquisition? You know, are they gonna buy into a new strategy? Are they capable, right, of building strategy? You know, especially in a distressed area, because something went wrong with a company, whether it’s market forces or it’s leadership forces. But a lot of times, you know, you hire a high-performing organization coming in, you still want to have an assessment, right? Because the assimilation of that organization takes a while.

Patrick: Yeah. Okay. And that’s all part of the big challenges, integration and transition of teams and so forth. I think one of the things that is a recurring theme ever since I began my M&A practice, now, seven years ago, it’s a lot longer in the in the business. But in the last seven years, my perception was a lot like the public perception about mergers and acquisitions is, you know, is Amazon buying whole foods. So it’s company A buying company B and they move on, okay.

Clint: And I find a lot of M&A failures are not because the deal didn’t pencil out initially. But it’s because of the people element, the cultural element, the leadership style, right? People don’t resist change as much as they resist being controlled. So when you’re acquiring a new company, to what extent have they bought in from a cultural perspective, and that really starts with the leadership at the top of the organization. Because they have to embody the spirit of that. If they don’t embody the spirit of that, then you’re almost destined for failure right out of the gate.

Patrick: Absolutely. So Clint, let’s talk about engagement for what you do. What does it looks like, we got audience members here that may want to go ahead and kick the tires with you and see how this all works. Talk about what an engagement looks like, you know, initial going forward, you had already mentioned this is it’s not a one-day process. So let’s talk about that just in general.

Clint: Yeah, you know, it really starts with it with an inquiry, just a conversation, right? What are some of your biggest challenges, let’s say going into 2023? What are your top three initiatives? What are your top three challenges? What problem are you trying to solve? And then that will open up a whole dialogue around strategy and leadership effectiveness. So from that, I could suggest an approach to leadership development and strategic planning. The the typical engagements for me, I’d say 90% are a minimum one year, because it’s a long-term process.

Upfront, it would start with strategy, let’s get the strategic plan completed, because now we have the basis for measurement and execution. Typically, Patrick, that’s a two-day event. I could do it in one day. I like to do it in person. Right, it’s just more, much more engaged. Now, during COVID I did lead several sessions via Zoom. And I gotta tell you it was somewhat painful. We got through it, but you don’t have the 100% mindshare and that team building and the camaraderie that comes to sitting around a table. So then, you know, then over the course of the year, then we would do mid-year checkups, refinement, course correction, and then we start building in the strategic or the leadership development process of it. Okay.

So from a financial perspective, if I could talk about that, my clients typically will pay me $3500 to $5000 per day for a strategic planning session, and how to execute that to that. Then the leadership development, right would be on top of that, and that really depends on what they want. Some, most of my clients implement what they call the whole leader. And that is a series of leadership training. And in, in my practice my case, I have written 25 different leadership training programs. Second facet would be leadership assessments. The true 360 multi rated assessment, because how a leader views their leadership effectiveness, it’s only through their lens.

But when you see it through the lens of their boss, their peers and the direct reports, then you have the aha moments. And then the third facet would be some type of personality preferences. So my clients have a mix of that. So I would say every single client is a little bit different in terms of the type of services they want to engage with. But I can tell you, that the value that they get out of a long-term engagement far exceeds the monetary cost of it.

Patrick: Absolutely. And that’s what I mean, we’re we have a vested interest for our clients to get, you know, bigger and more successful. So this, we’re in alignment on that front. So Clint, as we look forward into 2023, what do you think are the biggest challenges out there? And I want to do both opportunities and challenges. Let’s start with the challenges. Because you didn’t mention a couple of new things with initiatives out there. But what challenges do you see for management teams, you know, global or US only, but what are the challenges you see going forward in 2023?

Clint: I tell you at the forefront that’s universal across all my clients right now. It’s talent. It’s talent acquisition, it’s onboarding, it’s retention. I mean, it’s, it’s a multi-layered, but it’s all about people. Right? It’s the need to focus on people, right. Because we’ve gone through, you know, the great resignation, the population reshuffling, employment migration. I mean, there’s a number of things that we’ve gone through right now. So I think, number one, that’s probably top.

Supply chain management is second, then the third, I would say biggest challenge that most of my clients have is being too rigid in their approach to strategy. You have to have a plan. It might change 20 times, right. But you don’t make a change, unless you anchor back to the strategy. So there’s a picture behind me of a current client, and she’s actually launched seven different companies. She has what I call a relentless focus on strategy. She’s in a very, very dynamic industry, right now that’s going through rapid change.

And we’ll put together a plan and we might change it three or four times or 20 times in the course of a year, but not without first consulting our North Star. And if we need to move the North Star, then we’ll do that with intelligence. If we need to move a tactic, then we will do that with intelligence. The worst thing you could do is just go off on a whim, change your business tactic without anchoring back to the strategic plan. Then you’ve just devalued the whole process.

Patrick: I would think and then not to plug you too much. But I would think the biggest opportunity for a lot of companies is you have a chance to engage somebody like you that can get these obstacles addressed. And you have a seasoned, experienced person that can shepherd you through the process. And I think that’s great opportunity, because the PE firms I’ve spoken to, a couple of them have this capability, but not all of them, by far. And so I think you know that’s a great opportunity out there. Are there any other opportunities you see for 2023? Or is it going to be as bad as people say?

Clint: I’d like to think we’ve gone through the worst of it. But you know, with global conflict right now, I mean, you know, one political move by China, by Russia, by the US, I mean, you just never know how that will just have a spiraling effect. But I would say just again, the agility to be able to course correct is what is so critically important. To just have a plan and be able to work the plan. That’s the starting point. If you go into 2023, and you don’t have the whole organization or at the minimum, the executive team aligned around a strategy, then you’re setting yourself up for disaster right?

Patrick: Well, I think if you’re nimble, nimble, in and of itself isn’t really good, because you can jump from one fire right into another fire. I think having the plan is is just paramount right now. And we’re at that time of year and this could be, you know, a new change for companies to do a new direction.

Clint: Yeah. And you know, something, it’s not difficult to do the plan. You have to carve out some time. And this is time well spent.

Patrick: Yes.

Clint: My methodology is, it’s a combination of left brain and right brain. Right. So you can see in the graphic behind me I do a visual graphic orientation to strategy that is very interactive, it’s fun, it’s engaging. It allows healthy dissent, which is what you want. Because I think you talked about groupthink, and you want to be able to break groupthink within executive teams. It’s visual. So you could see all of the content that’s on the wall. And when I say it’s easy, it’s easy, because there’s a methodology, you trust the process.

And when you start from 30,000 feet, and you start staring down to ground zero, the solutions start to emerge. And some of those solutions, right, are already known. It’s now it’s confirmed. And some of those solutions could be completely out of the box. And I’ll give you an example. If I have a minute.

Patrick: Sure. Please.

Clint: I’ve got a regional airline client out of Alaska, that every year, they’ve struggled with finding young pilots. Now during COVID, there’s a real pilot shortage. We did our strategic planning, it was last year in 2021. Focus on pilot development and acquisition. And it was one of the executives said, flip the label, why don’t we just start our own flight school and train them ourselves. And everyone started laughing. And the CEO, he said, wait a minute, let’s build on that thought.

We have the planes, we have the facility, let’s recruit them, let’s sign them onto three, five-year contract. And if they want to move on to American Airlines, or Delta, that’s fine. We got right service out of them. And you know something. But for the strategic planning process that I did, might not have surfaced. And I just thought that was really, really cool. And they did it. Right. Pretty cool.

Patrick: I think opportunities arise. And as I look at the picture behind you, I’m reminded where if you had to set up your strategic plan. It’s almost like a novelist is starting the next book, and you’re just looking at a blank screen or blank piece of paper. And you’ve got that oh, no, now what. You don’t know how you’re going to and where to start and everything. And then I look at where there was just a blank board, and you’ve got, you know, all that writing, those are all new opportunities, those are new thoughts. Those are new breakthroughs that are in the waiting, I think that’s really, really exciting.

So I and we are dragging a little bit on from this, but it is a lot of fun. The more you talk about this, the more fun you have. And I would just say, you know, with owners and founders and the folks in the private equity, who wouldn’t want to sit down with you and talk about their favorite subject, which is how to grow their business and make it a resounding success. And I think that’s fantastic. Clint Tripodi from Liberty Company Insurance Brokers, how can our audience members find you because I’ve got a spot where they can find you, but you start first.

Clint: Well, I’m sure you’re gonna, you’re gonna post my contact information. LinkedIn, Clint Tripodi is a great way to take a look at the services that I provide. Right, all my contact information will be there as well as what you provide. And you know, something, I’m I’m open to just the conversation. I mean, obviously, there’s no charge. Let’s just, let’s just talk about how do we take your vision and turn it to reality? How do we develop your executive team to execute to that vision, right? There’s no mystery. There’s no smoke and mirrors around this. It’s a process, and it’s proven.

Patrick: It couldn’t be easier. You already know the questions to ask. So it won’t be I mean, your time will be well spent. So it works out. I would also say if anybody wants to get a hold of Clint, you can always come through me, pstroth@rubiconins.com. You’ve got, you know, and you know, I can connect you with Clint pretty darn quickly. He is very, very accessible, even though he is busy, but he’s really accessible. So, Clint, thanks so much for being here today.

Clint: Okay, thank you very much, Patrick.